The More Things Change….

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By Susan/Miranda

For all of us who are fascinated by the past (and that’s probably just about everyone reading this blog), history can offer all sorts of surprises.  Research can turn up a crucial fact for a plot, or provide the details that bring a character to life, or even inspire an entire book.  But sometimes, as a true-born-history-nerd, the best part is stumbling upon Cool Stuff I Didn’t Know.

If a cartoonist were to draw me researching, I’d have a pile of book
s around me, pages bristling with multi-colored Post-Its, a couple of cats, and a big, fat exclamation point of delighted amazement floating over my head.  There’s one school of thought that describes history as simply rediscovering everything that’s been forgotten.  I like that idea.  For me, one of the fun-est parts of the rediscovery process is learning that some thing/experience/invention that I’d always believed to be modern is, in fact, old.  Over and over, it seems that our ancestors have already “been there, done that, wrote about it in my diary.”

The ancient Romans can claim first inventing aqueducts, water running through pipes, paved roads, andRoyalexchange_2
scores of other engineering accomplishments. Much is made of Thomas Jefferson introducing pasta to 18th century Americans, but it had already been a favorite food in China many centuries before Marco Polo “discovered” it and brought it back to medieval Italy.  A large quadrangle building centered by a courtyard, sheltering coffee-shops, taverns, and over a hundred shops selling luxury goods: the description sounds like a modern shopping mall, but it’s actually the Royal Exchange, dedicated by Queen Elizabeth I in 1571. 

Of course I’m ready to offer examples. *g* Except for the style of the writing and the places mentioned, the excerpt that follows could be a description of modern New Yorkers with summer places on the Jersey shore. Instead it’s from a letter by Daniel Defoe written after visiting Epsom, Surrey, in 1705.  He sounds more than a little envious of these “men of business," too:

The greatest part of the men may be supposed to be men of business, who are at London … all the day, and thronging to their lodgings at night….They take their horses every morning to London, to the DefoeExchange, to the Alley, or to the Warehouse, and be at Epsome again at night; and I know one citizen that practised it for several years together, and scarce ever lay anight in London during the whole season…There is a great deal of society, mirth, and good manners, and good company among these, too….but in the winter this is no place for pleasure…good houses shut up, and windows fastened, the furniture taken down, the families removed, the leaves off the trees, and all the people out of the town.”

In fact, it’s often when our ancestors grouse that they tend to sound much more like us.  The niceties of Whigs vs. Tories are hard to fathom today, but Sarah Churchill’s early 18th century complaint about how little her children learn from travel will sound familiar to modern parents whose offspring spend entire “educational” vacations playing video games.

“Wherever the children are, they will be very idle, and notwithstanding all the pains I have taken, theySarahchurchill will never know anything that is of any more consequence than a  curious toupee, a laced coat, or a puppet show.”

Modern editorial writers who devote waaaaaayyy too much ink to the unsuitability of teenagers’ dress would find a kindred spirit in the Reverend Joseph Doddridge, who found much lacking (like the breeches) in the attire of the local boys in 1770s Pennsylvania:

“Since the latter years of the Indian war, our young men have become enamored of the Indian dress.,.Their drawers have been laid aside, and the Indian breech clout adopted…With this, when the belt was passed over the hunting shirt (now worn in place of a coat), the upper part of the thighs and part of the hips were naked. The young warrior, instead of being abashed by his nudity, was proud of his Indian-like dress. In some instances I have seen them go into places of public worship in this dress, where their appearance did not add much to the devotions of the young ladies.”

Oh, I just best those young ladies had trouble concentrating on their devotions….

But what about you?  Have you ever been similarly struck by something from the past that seemed unusually modern? An expression of speech that “felt” like modern slang, but turned out to be 300 years old, or a 19th century Shaker chair that could be in the new Ikea catalogue?

50 thoughts on “The More Things Change….”

  1. Hey Susan/Miranda!
    Love the Joseph Doddridge quote! Just love it! I think that guy’s ancestor was the principal at the private school I attended. The man had a real problem with open toe-ed shoes, which he banned as too revealing of attire for young ladies. They messed with his concentration, I think.
    Anyway, I absolutely loved Seduction of an English Lady. Antonio was/is the sexiest hero I’ve read in a long time. And the ending was fantastic. Kudos to you!
    🙂
    Nina

    Reply
  2. Hey Susan/Miranda!
    Love the Joseph Doddridge quote! Just love it! I think that guy’s ancestor was the principal at the private school I attended. The man had a real problem with open toe-ed shoes, which he banned as too revealing of attire for young ladies. They messed with his concentration, I think.
    Anyway, I absolutely loved Seduction of an English Lady. Antonio was/is the sexiest hero I’ve read in a long time. And the ending was fantastic. Kudos to you!
    🙂
    Nina

    Reply
  3. Hey Susan/Miranda!
    Love the Joseph Doddridge quote! Just love it! I think that guy’s ancestor was the principal at the private school I attended. The man had a real problem with open toe-ed shoes, which he banned as too revealing of attire for young ladies. They messed with his concentration, I think.
    Anyway, I absolutely loved Seduction of an English Lady. Antonio was/is the sexiest hero I’ve read in a long time. And the ending was fantastic. Kudos to you!
    🙂
    Nina

    Reply
  4. Hey Susan/Miranda!
    Love the Joseph Doddridge quote! Just love it! I think that guy’s ancestor was the principal at the private school I attended. The man had a real problem with open toe-ed shoes, which he banned as too revealing of attire for young ladies. They messed with his concentration, I think.
    Anyway, I absolutely loved Seduction of an English Lady. Antonio was/is the sexiest hero I’ve read in a long time. And the ending was fantastic. Kudos to you!
    🙂
    Nina

    Reply
  5. Hey Susan/Miranda!
    Love the Joseph Doddridge quote! Just love it! I think that guy’s ancestor was the principal at the private school I attended. The man had a real problem with open toe-ed shoes, which he banned as too revealing of attire for young ladies. They messed with his concentration, I think.
    Anyway, I absolutely loved Seduction of an English Lady. Antonio was/is the sexiest hero I’ve read in a long time. And the ending was fantastic. Kudos to you!
    🙂
    Nina

    Reply
  6. I too LOVE when I read something in old letters, diaries, etc. that sounds so modern or relevant to today or shows how human nature/relationships don’t change. I’ve posted before how shocked I was to see the word “slut” in Tom Jones.
    19th century stuff does seem a lot more “approachable” than earlier stuff, but this still may be interesting. Here are some of my favorite quotes from the Letters of Harry-O – Lady Harriet Cavendish
    9/22/1802 letter to her sister – “My aunt and Lady Asgill are at present violent friends, and sit cooing over Lord Granville’s perfections by the hour. I always guess the subject by the screwing of their mouths and different attitudes of admiration they display.”
    In 1807 – Harry-O’s younger brother is growing up and starting to “instruct” his older sisters: “Goodbye, my good girls, behave well at York and do not disgrace your brother.” Later letter says they are “to treat him with the greatest respect and upon no account call him either “Hart” or “my love.”
    Sept. 5, 1807 – “I am afraid I am too fastidious and I have accustomed myself to speculate too much on the characters of other people, which has two very bad consequences; in discovering their failings, I overlook their perfections and whilst I am discussing their faults, I forget that I might be better employed in getting rid of my own. I will guard against this uncharitable temper of mind and your excellent advice shall be a check even upon my thoughts.”

    Reply
  7. I too LOVE when I read something in old letters, diaries, etc. that sounds so modern or relevant to today or shows how human nature/relationships don’t change. I’ve posted before how shocked I was to see the word “slut” in Tom Jones.
    19th century stuff does seem a lot more “approachable” than earlier stuff, but this still may be interesting. Here are some of my favorite quotes from the Letters of Harry-O – Lady Harriet Cavendish
    9/22/1802 letter to her sister – “My aunt and Lady Asgill are at present violent friends, and sit cooing over Lord Granville’s perfections by the hour. I always guess the subject by the screwing of their mouths and different attitudes of admiration they display.”
    In 1807 – Harry-O’s younger brother is growing up and starting to “instruct” his older sisters: “Goodbye, my good girls, behave well at York and do not disgrace your brother.” Later letter says they are “to treat him with the greatest respect and upon no account call him either “Hart” or “my love.”
    Sept. 5, 1807 – “I am afraid I am too fastidious and I have accustomed myself to speculate too much on the characters of other people, which has two very bad consequences; in discovering their failings, I overlook their perfections and whilst I am discussing their faults, I forget that I might be better employed in getting rid of my own. I will guard against this uncharitable temper of mind and your excellent advice shall be a check even upon my thoughts.”

    Reply
  8. I too LOVE when I read something in old letters, diaries, etc. that sounds so modern or relevant to today or shows how human nature/relationships don’t change. I’ve posted before how shocked I was to see the word “slut” in Tom Jones.
    19th century stuff does seem a lot more “approachable” than earlier stuff, but this still may be interesting. Here are some of my favorite quotes from the Letters of Harry-O – Lady Harriet Cavendish
    9/22/1802 letter to her sister – “My aunt and Lady Asgill are at present violent friends, and sit cooing over Lord Granville’s perfections by the hour. I always guess the subject by the screwing of their mouths and different attitudes of admiration they display.”
    In 1807 – Harry-O’s younger brother is growing up and starting to “instruct” his older sisters: “Goodbye, my good girls, behave well at York and do not disgrace your brother.” Later letter says they are “to treat him with the greatest respect and upon no account call him either “Hart” or “my love.”
    Sept. 5, 1807 – “I am afraid I am too fastidious and I have accustomed myself to speculate too much on the characters of other people, which has two very bad consequences; in discovering their failings, I overlook their perfections and whilst I am discussing their faults, I forget that I might be better employed in getting rid of my own. I will guard against this uncharitable temper of mind and your excellent advice shall be a check even upon my thoughts.”

    Reply
  9. I too LOVE when I read something in old letters, diaries, etc. that sounds so modern or relevant to today or shows how human nature/relationships don’t change. I’ve posted before how shocked I was to see the word “slut” in Tom Jones.
    19th century stuff does seem a lot more “approachable” than earlier stuff, but this still may be interesting. Here are some of my favorite quotes from the Letters of Harry-O – Lady Harriet Cavendish
    9/22/1802 letter to her sister – “My aunt and Lady Asgill are at present violent friends, and sit cooing over Lord Granville’s perfections by the hour. I always guess the subject by the screwing of their mouths and different attitudes of admiration they display.”
    In 1807 – Harry-O’s younger brother is growing up and starting to “instruct” his older sisters: “Goodbye, my good girls, behave well at York and do not disgrace your brother.” Later letter says they are “to treat him with the greatest respect and upon no account call him either “Hart” or “my love.”
    Sept. 5, 1807 – “I am afraid I am too fastidious and I have accustomed myself to speculate too much on the characters of other people, which has two very bad consequences; in discovering their failings, I overlook their perfections and whilst I am discussing their faults, I forget that I might be better employed in getting rid of my own. I will guard against this uncharitable temper of mind and your excellent advice shall be a check even upon my thoughts.”

    Reply
  10. I too LOVE when I read something in old letters, diaries, etc. that sounds so modern or relevant to today or shows how human nature/relationships don’t change. I’ve posted before how shocked I was to see the word “slut” in Tom Jones.
    19th century stuff does seem a lot more “approachable” than earlier stuff, but this still may be interesting. Here are some of my favorite quotes from the Letters of Harry-O – Lady Harriet Cavendish
    9/22/1802 letter to her sister – “My aunt and Lady Asgill are at present violent friends, and sit cooing over Lord Granville’s perfections by the hour. I always guess the subject by the screwing of their mouths and different attitudes of admiration they display.”
    In 1807 – Harry-O’s younger brother is growing up and starting to “instruct” his older sisters: “Goodbye, my good girls, behave well at York and do not disgrace your brother.” Later letter says they are “to treat him with the greatest respect and upon no account call him either “Hart” or “my love.”
    Sept. 5, 1807 – “I am afraid I am too fastidious and I have accustomed myself to speculate too much on the characters of other people, which has two very bad consequences; in discovering their failings, I overlook their perfections and whilst I am discussing their faults, I forget that I might be better employed in getting rid of my own. I will guard against this uncharitable temper of mind and your excellent advice shall be a check even upon my thoughts.”

    Reply
  11. Excellent blog, Susan/ Miranda. Yes, history is all this to me. As to turns of phrase, there’s always Byron. In a stanza of Don Juan he says “you might ‘brain them with their lady’s fan.'”
    Reading his letters and journals, I’m struck time and again with how modern he sounds.
    Michelle, wasn’t Harry-O the one who married Granville Leveson-Gower, reputedly the handsomest man in England? If so, no wonder the ladies were cooing. I’ve seen pictures of him, and I’d coo, too. She was pretty remarkable, I think, in raising the children her husband had had with her aunt!

    Reply
  12. Excellent blog, Susan/ Miranda. Yes, history is all this to me. As to turns of phrase, there’s always Byron. In a stanza of Don Juan he says “you might ‘brain them with their lady’s fan.'”
    Reading his letters and journals, I’m struck time and again with how modern he sounds.
    Michelle, wasn’t Harry-O the one who married Granville Leveson-Gower, reputedly the handsomest man in England? If so, no wonder the ladies were cooing. I’ve seen pictures of him, and I’d coo, too. She was pretty remarkable, I think, in raising the children her husband had had with her aunt!

    Reply
  13. Excellent blog, Susan/ Miranda. Yes, history is all this to me. As to turns of phrase, there’s always Byron. In a stanza of Don Juan he says “you might ‘brain them with their lady’s fan.'”
    Reading his letters and journals, I’m struck time and again with how modern he sounds.
    Michelle, wasn’t Harry-O the one who married Granville Leveson-Gower, reputedly the handsomest man in England? If so, no wonder the ladies were cooing. I’ve seen pictures of him, and I’d coo, too. She was pretty remarkable, I think, in raising the children her husband had had with her aunt!

    Reply
  14. Excellent blog, Susan/ Miranda. Yes, history is all this to me. As to turns of phrase, there’s always Byron. In a stanza of Don Juan he says “you might ‘brain them with their lady’s fan.'”
    Reading his letters and journals, I’m struck time and again with how modern he sounds.
    Michelle, wasn’t Harry-O the one who married Granville Leveson-Gower, reputedly the handsomest man in England? If so, no wonder the ladies were cooing. I’ve seen pictures of him, and I’d coo, too. She was pretty remarkable, I think, in raising the children her husband had had with her aunt!

    Reply
  15. Excellent blog, Susan/ Miranda. Yes, history is all this to me. As to turns of phrase, there’s always Byron. In a stanza of Don Juan he says “you might ‘brain them with their lady’s fan.'”
    Reading his letters and journals, I’m struck time and again with how modern he sounds.
    Michelle, wasn’t Harry-O the one who married Granville Leveson-Gower, reputedly the handsomest man in England? If so, no wonder the ladies were cooing. I’ve seen pictures of him, and I’d coo, too. She was pretty remarkable, I think, in raising the children her husband had had with her aunt!

    Reply
  16. >>Their drawers have been laid aside, and the Indian breech clout adopted…With this, when the belt was passed over the hunting shirt (now worn in place of a coat), the upper part of the thighs and part of the hips were naked. << LOL! This was a fashion trend I'd not heard of before. Definitely a distraction to the young ladies in church. 🙂 As for terms less modern than we think--"pig" was a term for police officer in the 1811 DICTIONARY OF THE VULGAR TONGUE. Mary Jo

    Reply
  17. >>Their drawers have been laid aside, and the Indian breech clout adopted…With this, when the belt was passed over the hunting shirt (now worn in place of a coat), the upper part of the thighs and part of the hips were naked. << LOL! This was a fashion trend I'd not heard of before. Definitely a distraction to the young ladies in church. 🙂 As for terms less modern than we think--"pig" was a term for police officer in the 1811 DICTIONARY OF THE VULGAR TONGUE. Mary Jo

    Reply
  18. >>Their drawers have been laid aside, and the Indian breech clout adopted…With this, when the belt was passed over the hunting shirt (now worn in place of a coat), the upper part of the thighs and part of the hips were naked. << LOL! This was a fashion trend I'd not heard of before. Definitely a distraction to the young ladies in church. 🙂 As for terms less modern than we think--"pig" was a term for police officer in the 1811 DICTIONARY OF THE VULGAR TONGUE. Mary Jo

    Reply
  19. >>Their drawers have been laid aside, and the Indian breech clout adopted…With this, when the belt was passed over the hunting shirt (now worn in place of a coat), the upper part of the thighs and part of the hips were naked. << LOL! This was a fashion trend I'd not heard of before. Definitely a distraction to the young ladies in church. 🙂 As for terms less modern than we think--"pig" was a term for police officer in the 1811 DICTIONARY OF THE VULGAR TONGUE. Mary Jo

    Reply
  20. >>Their drawers have been laid aside, and the Indian breech clout adopted…With this, when the belt was passed over the hunting shirt (now worn in place of a coat), the upper part of the thighs and part of the hips were naked. << LOL! This was a fashion trend I'd not heard of before. Definitely a distraction to the young ladies in church. 🙂 As for terms less modern than we think--"pig" was a term for police officer in the 1811 DICTIONARY OF THE VULGAR TONGUE. Mary Jo

    Reply
  21. There’s some great stuff about the early Colonists adopting Native attire in Baumgarten’s WHAT CLOTHES REVEAL. James Fenimore Cooper’s Leatherstocking Tales (The Deerslayer, The Last of the Mohicans, The Pathfinder, The Pioneers, and The Prairie) captured this aspect of frontier life and preserved it forever.

    Reply
  22. There’s some great stuff about the early Colonists adopting Native attire in Baumgarten’s WHAT CLOTHES REVEAL. James Fenimore Cooper’s Leatherstocking Tales (The Deerslayer, The Last of the Mohicans, The Pathfinder, The Pioneers, and The Prairie) captured this aspect of frontier life and preserved it forever.

    Reply
  23. There’s some great stuff about the early Colonists adopting Native attire in Baumgarten’s WHAT CLOTHES REVEAL. James Fenimore Cooper’s Leatherstocking Tales (The Deerslayer, The Last of the Mohicans, The Pathfinder, The Pioneers, and The Prairie) captured this aspect of frontier life and preserved it forever.

    Reply
  24. There’s some great stuff about the early Colonists adopting Native attire in Baumgarten’s WHAT CLOTHES REVEAL. James Fenimore Cooper’s Leatherstocking Tales (The Deerslayer, The Last of the Mohicans, The Pathfinder, The Pioneers, and The Prairie) captured this aspect of frontier life and preserved it forever.

    Reply
  25. There’s some great stuff about the early Colonists adopting Native attire in Baumgarten’s WHAT CLOTHES REVEAL. James Fenimore Cooper’s Leatherstocking Tales (The Deerslayer, The Last of the Mohicans, The Pathfinder, The Pioneers, and The Prairie) captured this aspect of frontier life and preserved it forever.

    Reply
  26. Susan/Miranda,
    What a great post–and fabulous quotes!
    Many years ago at Colonial Williamsburg, in the hat-maker’s shop, a curious little helmet-like thing was shown to us by one of the interpreters. IIRC, it was made of padded stuff (leather?) that went around the head, and then there were padded strips that crossed over the head.
    The interpreter told us that this was a hat for children just learning to walk–to protect their little heads during all that toddling and head-bumping–and she also pointed out that modern-day bicycle helmets have much the same design principle. . .
    Melinda

    Reply
  27. Susan/Miranda,
    What a great post–and fabulous quotes!
    Many years ago at Colonial Williamsburg, in the hat-maker’s shop, a curious little helmet-like thing was shown to us by one of the interpreters. IIRC, it was made of padded stuff (leather?) that went around the head, and then there were padded strips that crossed over the head.
    The interpreter told us that this was a hat for children just learning to walk–to protect their little heads during all that toddling and head-bumping–and she also pointed out that modern-day bicycle helmets have much the same design principle. . .
    Melinda

    Reply
  28. Susan/Miranda,
    What a great post–and fabulous quotes!
    Many years ago at Colonial Williamsburg, in the hat-maker’s shop, a curious little helmet-like thing was shown to us by one of the interpreters. IIRC, it was made of padded stuff (leather?) that went around the head, and then there were padded strips that crossed over the head.
    The interpreter told us that this was a hat for children just learning to walk–to protect their little heads during all that toddling and head-bumping–and she also pointed out that modern-day bicycle helmets have much the same design principle. . .
    Melinda

    Reply
  29. Susan/Miranda,
    What a great post–and fabulous quotes!
    Many years ago at Colonial Williamsburg, in the hat-maker’s shop, a curious little helmet-like thing was shown to us by one of the interpreters. IIRC, it was made of padded stuff (leather?) that went around the head, and then there were padded strips that crossed over the head.
    The interpreter told us that this was a hat for children just learning to walk–to protect their little heads during all that toddling and head-bumping–and she also pointed out that modern-day bicycle helmets have much the same design principle. . .
    Melinda

    Reply
  30. Susan/Miranda,
    What a great post–and fabulous quotes!
    Many years ago at Colonial Williamsburg, in the hat-maker’s shop, a curious little helmet-like thing was shown to us by one of the interpreters. IIRC, it was made of padded stuff (leather?) that went around the head, and then there were padded strips that crossed over the head.
    The interpreter told us that this was a hat for children just learning to walk–to protect their little heads during all that toddling and head-bumping–and she also pointed out that modern-day bicycle helmets have much the same design principle. . .
    Melinda

    Reply
  31. I remember how amazed I was to discover that “facsimile” is a word that has been in use since the late 1600s. I’d always assumed it came into existence with the fax machine. *g*
    Throughout history there have always been people who expressed their individuality in ways their parents might not have approved. Today we have the kid who might sport odd body piercings, tattoos, and blue hair. I’ve read of individuals in history who had odd body piercings, tattoos, and blue hair. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Reply
  32. I remember how amazed I was to discover that “facsimile” is a word that has been in use since the late 1600s. I’d always assumed it came into existence with the fax machine. *g*
    Throughout history there have always been people who expressed their individuality in ways their parents might not have approved. Today we have the kid who might sport odd body piercings, tattoos, and blue hair. I’ve read of individuals in history who had odd body piercings, tattoos, and blue hair. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Reply
  33. I remember how amazed I was to discover that “facsimile” is a word that has been in use since the late 1600s. I’d always assumed it came into existence with the fax machine. *g*
    Throughout history there have always been people who expressed their individuality in ways their parents might not have approved. Today we have the kid who might sport odd body piercings, tattoos, and blue hair. I’ve read of individuals in history who had odd body piercings, tattoos, and blue hair. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Reply
  34. I remember how amazed I was to discover that “facsimile” is a word that has been in use since the late 1600s. I’d always assumed it came into existence with the fax machine. *g*
    Throughout history there have always been people who expressed their individuality in ways their parents might not have approved. Today we have the kid who might sport odd body piercings, tattoos, and blue hair. I’ve read of individuals in history who had odd body piercings, tattoos, and blue hair. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Reply
  35. I remember how amazed I was to discover that “facsimile” is a word that has been in use since the late 1600s. I’d always assumed it came into existence with the fax machine. *g*
    Throughout history there have always been people who expressed their individuality in ways their parents might not have approved. Today we have the kid who might sport odd body piercings, tattoos, and blue hair. I’ve read of individuals in history who had odd body piercings, tattoos, and blue hair. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Reply
  36. The following is a quote from Horse Guards by Barney White-Spunner.
    “The Life Guard soldiers tended to be slightly older than The Blues. Most prominent among them and already a national figure, was Corporal John Shaw, the prize fighter. From Wollaston in Nottinghamshire, Shaw was a very well build man over 6 feet 3 inches tall and weighing 15 stone. He later became something of a Victorian hero, ‘the model of the whole British army himself. ‘I’d give a fifty pound note to be such a figure of a man,’ according to Charles Dickens in Bleak House.
    He wasn’t above earning extra money by posing as an artist’s model for ladies’ drawing classes, a very full example of whose handiwork is in the Household Cavalry Museum.”
    Yes, indeed, he is shown naked, full frontal with one knee resting on a chair.
    So who were those supposedly demure Victorian ladies who drew and painted him?
    All the best,
    Rosemary Morris
    Author of Tangled Hearts set in the reign of Queen Anne the last Stuart monarch.
    Available from http://www.enspirenpress.com

    Reply
  37. The following is a quote from Horse Guards by Barney White-Spunner.
    “The Life Guard soldiers tended to be slightly older than The Blues. Most prominent among them and already a national figure, was Corporal John Shaw, the prize fighter. From Wollaston in Nottinghamshire, Shaw was a very well build man over 6 feet 3 inches tall and weighing 15 stone. He later became something of a Victorian hero, ‘the model of the whole British army himself. ‘I’d give a fifty pound note to be such a figure of a man,’ according to Charles Dickens in Bleak House.
    He wasn’t above earning extra money by posing as an artist’s model for ladies’ drawing classes, a very full example of whose handiwork is in the Household Cavalry Museum.”
    Yes, indeed, he is shown naked, full frontal with one knee resting on a chair.
    So who were those supposedly demure Victorian ladies who drew and painted him?
    All the best,
    Rosemary Morris
    Author of Tangled Hearts set in the reign of Queen Anne the last Stuart monarch.
    Available from http://www.enspirenpress.com

    Reply
  38. The following is a quote from Horse Guards by Barney White-Spunner.
    “The Life Guard soldiers tended to be slightly older than The Blues. Most prominent among them and already a national figure, was Corporal John Shaw, the prize fighter. From Wollaston in Nottinghamshire, Shaw was a very well build man over 6 feet 3 inches tall and weighing 15 stone. He later became something of a Victorian hero, ‘the model of the whole British army himself. ‘I’d give a fifty pound note to be such a figure of a man,’ according to Charles Dickens in Bleak House.
    He wasn’t above earning extra money by posing as an artist’s model for ladies’ drawing classes, a very full example of whose handiwork is in the Household Cavalry Museum.”
    Yes, indeed, he is shown naked, full frontal with one knee resting on a chair.
    So who were those supposedly demure Victorian ladies who drew and painted him?
    All the best,
    Rosemary Morris
    Author of Tangled Hearts set in the reign of Queen Anne the last Stuart monarch.
    Available from http://www.enspirenpress.com

    Reply
  39. The following is a quote from Horse Guards by Barney White-Spunner.
    “The Life Guard soldiers tended to be slightly older than The Blues. Most prominent among them and already a national figure, was Corporal John Shaw, the prize fighter. From Wollaston in Nottinghamshire, Shaw was a very well build man over 6 feet 3 inches tall and weighing 15 stone. He later became something of a Victorian hero, ‘the model of the whole British army himself. ‘I’d give a fifty pound note to be such a figure of a man,’ according to Charles Dickens in Bleak House.
    He wasn’t above earning extra money by posing as an artist’s model for ladies’ drawing classes, a very full example of whose handiwork is in the Household Cavalry Museum.”
    Yes, indeed, he is shown naked, full frontal with one knee resting on a chair.
    So who were those supposedly demure Victorian ladies who drew and painted him?
    All the best,
    Rosemary Morris
    Author of Tangled Hearts set in the reign of Queen Anne the last Stuart monarch.
    Available from http://www.enspirenpress.com

    Reply
  40. The following is a quote from Horse Guards by Barney White-Spunner.
    “The Life Guard soldiers tended to be slightly older than The Blues. Most prominent among them and already a national figure, was Corporal John Shaw, the prize fighter. From Wollaston in Nottinghamshire, Shaw was a very well build man over 6 feet 3 inches tall and weighing 15 stone. He later became something of a Victorian hero, ‘the model of the whole British army himself. ‘I’d give a fifty pound note to be such a figure of a man,’ according to Charles Dickens in Bleak House.
    He wasn’t above earning extra money by posing as an artist’s model for ladies’ drawing classes, a very full example of whose handiwork is in the Household Cavalry Museum.”
    Yes, indeed, he is shown naked, full frontal with one knee resting on a chair.
    So who were those supposedly demure Victorian ladies who drew and painted him?
    All the best,
    Rosemary Morris
    Author of Tangled Hearts set in the reign of Queen Anne the last Stuart monarch.
    Available from http://www.enspirenpress.com

    Reply
  41. Loretta,
    Harry-O is the one who wed Granville Leveson-Grover. She was ga ga over kids – and ga ga over her husband after they wed – and at times close to her aunt – and incredibly close to her sister and brother – so it’s not completely surprising to me that she took in his kids. She’s also the one who grew up with a half-sister (illegitimate) in the same nursery. Actually, it seems like it was not entirely uncommon for relatives to take in the illegitimate children of some swinging man.
    I do have the collection of Granville Leveson-Gower’s private correspondence (and I think it’s mostly letters from the “infamous” aunt during their affair), but I haven’t started it yet. I’m interested in finding out if Granville Leveson-Gower’s voice is as interesting as his person. 🙂 There are moments when he adds notes to his wife’s letters, and they tend to be in that dry-humor/self-deprecating tone that is appealing.
    It is very amusing to read how aware and how “sarcastic” Harry-O is about GLG when she was growing up.
    I should also admit that I really like Harry-O based on her letters – and I know there are others who find her very judgemental.
    -Michelle

    Reply
  42. Loretta,
    Harry-O is the one who wed Granville Leveson-Grover. She was ga ga over kids – and ga ga over her husband after they wed – and at times close to her aunt – and incredibly close to her sister and brother – so it’s not completely surprising to me that she took in his kids. She’s also the one who grew up with a half-sister (illegitimate) in the same nursery. Actually, it seems like it was not entirely uncommon for relatives to take in the illegitimate children of some swinging man.
    I do have the collection of Granville Leveson-Gower’s private correspondence (and I think it’s mostly letters from the “infamous” aunt during their affair), but I haven’t started it yet. I’m interested in finding out if Granville Leveson-Gower’s voice is as interesting as his person. 🙂 There are moments when he adds notes to his wife’s letters, and they tend to be in that dry-humor/self-deprecating tone that is appealing.
    It is very amusing to read how aware and how “sarcastic” Harry-O is about GLG when she was growing up.
    I should also admit that I really like Harry-O based on her letters – and I know there are others who find her very judgemental.
    -Michelle

    Reply
  43. Loretta,
    Harry-O is the one who wed Granville Leveson-Grover. She was ga ga over kids – and ga ga over her husband after they wed – and at times close to her aunt – and incredibly close to her sister and brother – so it’s not completely surprising to me that she took in his kids. She’s also the one who grew up with a half-sister (illegitimate) in the same nursery. Actually, it seems like it was not entirely uncommon for relatives to take in the illegitimate children of some swinging man.
    I do have the collection of Granville Leveson-Gower’s private correspondence (and I think it’s mostly letters from the “infamous” aunt during their affair), but I haven’t started it yet. I’m interested in finding out if Granville Leveson-Gower’s voice is as interesting as his person. 🙂 There are moments when he adds notes to his wife’s letters, and they tend to be in that dry-humor/self-deprecating tone that is appealing.
    It is very amusing to read how aware and how “sarcastic” Harry-O is about GLG when she was growing up.
    I should also admit that I really like Harry-O based on her letters – and I know there are others who find her very judgemental.
    -Michelle

    Reply
  44. Loretta,
    Harry-O is the one who wed Granville Leveson-Grover. She was ga ga over kids – and ga ga over her husband after they wed – and at times close to her aunt – and incredibly close to her sister and brother – so it’s not completely surprising to me that she took in his kids. She’s also the one who grew up with a half-sister (illegitimate) in the same nursery. Actually, it seems like it was not entirely uncommon for relatives to take in the illegitimate children of some swinging man.
    I do have the collection of Granville Leveson-Gower’s private correspondence (and I think it’s mostly letters from the “infamous” aunt during their affair), but I haven’t started it yet. I’m interested in finding out if Granville Leveson-Gower’s voice is as interesting as his person. 🙂 There are moments when he adds notes to his wife’s letters, and they tend to be in that dry-humor/self-deprecating tone that is appealing.
    It is very amusing to read how aware and how “sarcastic” Harry-O is about GLG when she was growing up.
    I should also admit that I really like Harry-O based on her letters – and I know there are others who find her very judgemental.
    -Michelle

    Reply
  45. Loretta,
    Harry-O is the one who wed Granville Leveson-Grover. She was ga ga over kids – and ga ga over her husband after they wed – and at times close to her aunt – and incredibly close to her sister and brother – so it’s not completely surprising to me that she took in his kids. She’s also the one who grew up with a half-sister (illegitimate) in the same nursery. Actually, it seems like it was not entirely uncommon for relatives to take in the illegitimate children of some swinging man.
    I do have the collection of Granville Leveson-Gower’s private correspondence (and I think it’s mostly letters from the “infamous” aunt during their affair), but I haven’t started it yet. I’m interested in finding out if Granville Leveson-Gower’s voice is as interesting as his person. 🙂 There are moments when he adds notes to his wife’s letters, and they tend to be in that dry-humor/self-deprecating tone that is appealing.
    It is very amusing to read how aware and how “sarcastic” Harry-O is about GLG when she was growing up.
    I should also admit that I really like Harry-O based on her letters – and I know there are others who find her very judgemental.
    -Michelle

    Reply
  46. Loved your blog, Susan/Miranda. In college I struggled with the question, English or History, but your feelings describe me perfectly. To think I taught elementary school, when I could have been teaching English or World History. (In 1965, American history was too ‘new’ to me.) How true that what parents felt in any era in history has been repeated by parents in later eras. Yes, how things do stay the same.

    Reply
  47. Loved your blog, Susan/Miranda. In college I struggled with the question, English or History, but your feelings describe me perfectly. To think I taught elementary school, when I could have been teaching English or World History. (In 1965, American history was too ‘new’ to me.) How true that what parents felt in any era in history has been repeated by parents in later eras. Yes, how things do stay the same.

    Reply
  48. Loved your blog, Susan/Miranda. In college I struggled with the question, English or History, but your feelings describe me perfectly. To think I taught elementary school, when I could have been teaching English or World History. (In 1965, American history was too ‘new’ to me.) How true that what parents felt in any era in history has been repeated by parents in later eras. Yes, how things do stay the same.

    Reply
  49. Loved your blog, Susan/Miranda. In college I struggled with the question, English or History, but your feelings describe me perfectly. To think I taught elementary school, when I could have been teaching English or World History. (In 1965, American history was too ‘new’ to me.) How true that what parents felt in any era in history has been repeated by parents in later eras. Yes, how things do stay the same.

    Reply
  50. Loved your blog, Susan/Miranda. In college I struggled with the question, English or History, but your feelings describe me perfectly. To think I taught elementary school, when I could have been teaching English or World History. (In 1965, American history was too ‘new’ to me.) How true that what parents felt in any era in history has been repeated by parents in later eras. Yes, how things do stay the same.

    Reply

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