“The flies trouble you don’t they my dear?” said Mrs Bangham. “But p’raps they’ll take your mind off of it and do you good. What between the buryin’ ground, the grocer's, the waggon stables, and the paunch trade, the Marshalsea flies gets very large….” Charles Dickens, Little Dorrit
As romance writers, we write about the fantasy of lords and ladies in Regency England. We write fairy tales with much better endings than anything the Grimm Brothers produced. And if we write about lords losing their estates over gambling or fathers being threatened with debtors’ prison, it’s only as a catalyst for the real action, the romance, and not the historical reality..
We apparently want to believe the fantasy of lovely gowns, and housefuls of servants, and elegant ballrooms at the disposal of every heroine without the restraint of budgets. It’s very possible many Regency women had little knowledge of their family’s financial affairs since men believed women were little more than pets to be coddled. But when it comes to money, ignorance is bliss for only a little while—until reality checks in.
Of course, reality for aristocrats was entirely different from the reality for everyone else. The people to whom aristocrats owed money could not have a lord arrested and thrown into an overcrowded debtors’ prison. Merchants might refuse to fill the orders of patrons who didn’t pay, if they dared risk the wrath of an earl or duke. But a not-so-wealthy noble could live on debt for years. He could order tailored coats, buy mighty steeds, and throw extravagant balls and not pay a shilling if he was protected by the House of Lords and could find merchants or banks willing to wait 
decades for payment. The flies of Marshalsea would never trouble him, but eventually, if his ship didn’t come in, his inheritance didn’t cover his debts, or his gambling habits became too reckless, he’d end up on his entailed estate growing his own vegetables. Or starving. Or sailing for foreign shores in hopes of living off his title or relatives.
Not so for the likes of Beau Brummel or Lady Emma Hamilton, who clung to the outskirts of that high-flying crowd, nor for all those people well below them. An unpaid debt of a few shillings and a mean merchant could easily land a commoner in a noxious prison cell—at least until the Insolvent Debtors’ Act of 1813. In that year, Parliament decided prisons were too crowded and generously declared debts must be greater than 40 shillings (very roughly the equivalent of $1000 today) before merchants could hire bailiffs to haul off debtors, and if 
the prisoner swore he had only twenty pounds in assets, he could request release after two weeks. Of course, if his creditors objected, then he could cool his heels in prison forever or until his family rescued him, whichever came first. With lawyer and court fees, or usurious interest, a 20 shilling debt could become 40 very quickly.
Worse yet, prisons like the Marshalsea were privately operated, leased out by the royals to profiteers, and the prisoners lived at the mercy of their gaolers. The prison charged for rent, food, clothing, and if a prisoner’s family ended up with him, each family member cost more money. If a man wasn’t bankrupt before he went into prison, he certainly could be after a few weeks stay. Such a situation often forced wives to prostitute themselves and children into workhouses in hopes of paying off the debt instead of increasing it. Unless a debtor had the wherewithal to pay for apartments outside the prison, they were likely to end up in a common cell with dozens of others, living with disease, rodents, and insects until they were so ill they died there, since paying for a doctor’s visit only added to their debt. In any case, it behooved a bankrupt to escape to foreign shores before their creditors closed in, which is what both Brummel and Lady Hamilton did.
And this was just in Regency England. Prior to that time, prisoners could be chained to the floor with 
spiked collars around their necks and heavy irons over their legs unless they somehow coughed up the “easement of irons” fee. Or were transported to the colonies or kept on the hulks in the Thames until the government could figure out where to send them. I suspect the expense of housing and transporting all those prisoners caused the debt relief acts in the next century, (image: http://www.thefullwiki.org/Prison_ship) not any generosity of spirit.
But readers don’t want to read the misery of Little Dorrit in their romances, so we threaten our heroes with prison but seldom actually show them in such a hopeless situation. Aren’t you glad? Or do you think we ought to show a little more reality and a little less fantasy in our historical romances?
Patricia
Very interesting post and I say it must have been really hard for some living in these times, as for putting reality in the books I love to read I would say it depends on the story line some it would fit into others maybe not. After all I read to take me away from the harshness of life and for a wonderful adventurous journey to a HEA.
Have Fun
Helen
Patricia
Very interesting post and I say it must have been really hard for some living in these times, as for putting reality in the books I love to read I would say it depends on the story line some it would fit into others maybe not. After all I read to take me away from the harshness of life and for a wonderful adventurous journey to a HEA.
Have Fun
Helen
Patricia
Very interesting post and I say it must have been really hard for some living in these times, as for putting reality in the books I love to read I would say it depends on the story line some it would fit into others maybe not. After all I read to take me away from the harshness of life and for a wonderful adventurous journey to a HEA.
Have Fun
Helen
Patricia
Very interesting post and I say it must have been really hard for some living in these times, as for putting reality in the books I love to read I would say it depends on the story line some it would fit into others maybe not. After all I read to take me away from the harshness of life and for a wonderful adventurous journey to a HEA.
Have Fun
Helen
Patricia
Very interesting post and I say it must have been really hard for some living in these times, as for putting reality in the books I love to read I would say it depends on the story line some it would fit into others maybe not. After all I read to take me away from the harshness of life and for a wonderful adventurous journey to a HEA.
Have Fun
Helen
I think if well done, it could work, if only in very small dozes. How about a hero briefly and wrongly imprisoned for a debt, or a heroine working hard to free a family member from debtor’s prison?
I think if well done, it could work, if only in very small dozes. How about a hero briefly and wrongly imprisoned for a debt, or a heroine working hard to free a family member from debtor’s prison?
I think if well done, it could work, if only in very small dozes. How about a hero briefly and wrongly imprisoned for a debt, or a heroine working hard to free a family member from debtor’s prison?
I think if well done, it could work, if only in very small dozes. How about a hero briefly and wrongly imprisoned for a debt, or a heroine working hard to free a family member from debtor’s prison?
I think if well done, it could work, if only in very small dozes. How about a hero briefly and wrongly imprisoned for a debt, or a heroine working hard to free a family member from debtor’s prison?
I prefer the fairy tale – though a woman who is released from prison by a Duke would be the ultimate Cinderella story…
I prefer the fairy tale – though a woman who is released from prison by a Duke would be the ultimate Cinderella story…
I prefer the fairy tale – though a woman who is released from prison by a Duke would be the ultimate Cinderella story…
I prefer the fairy tale – though a woman who is released from prison by a Duke would be the ultimate Cinderella story…
I prefer the fairy tale – though a woman who is released from prison by a Duke would be the ultimate Cinderella story…
Very interesting post, Pat! That’s for a glimpse at the dirty linen beneath all the silks and satins . . .it’s fascinating to know all the details. I think, like most any plot point, grim reality can be used judiciously to add grit and texture to a story. But IMO most readers probably wouldn’t want to deal with the full grimness in the romance gnere..
Very interesting post, Pat! That’s for a glimpse at the dirty linen beneath all the silks and satins . . .it’s fascinating to know all the details. I think, like most any plot point, grim reality can be used judiciously to add grit and texture to a story. But IMO most readers probably wouldn’t want to deal with the full grimness in the romance gnere..
Very interesting post, Pat! That’s for a glimpse at the dirty linen beneath all the silks and satins . . .it’s fascinating to know all the details. I think, like most any plot point, grim reality can be used judiciously to add grit and texture to a story. But IMO most readers probably wouldn’t want to deal with the full grimness in the romance gnere..
Very interesting post, Pat! That’s for a glimpse at the dirty linen beneath all the silks and satins . . .it’s fascinating to know all the details. I think, like most any plot point, grim reality can be used judiciously to add grit and texture to a story. But IMO most readers probably wouldn’t want to deal with the full grimness in the romance gnere..
Very interesting post, Pat! That’s for a glimpse at the dirty linen beneath all the silks and satins . . .it’s fascinating to know all the details. I think, like most any plot point, grim reality can be used judiciously to add grit and texture to a story. But IMO most readers probably wouldn’t want to deal with the full grimness in the romance gnere..
Fascinating post, Pat. I must confess I do like a bit of historical reality to add, as Cara/Andrea says, grit and texture to a story. But I also love a good take-me-away fantasy and a solid happy ending.
I’ve read — and written— a few stories that start with people in a grim situation, and I love watching them work their way toward a happy ending. I think the happy ending means more when they’ve had to work for it.
Fascinating post, Pat. I must confess I do like a bit of historical reality to add, as Cara/Andrea says, grit and texture to a story. But I also love a good take-me-away fantasy and a solid happy ending.
I’ve read — and written— a few stories that start with people in a grim situation, and I love watching them work their way toward a happy ending. I think the happy ending means more when they’ve had to work for it.
Fascinating post, Pat. I must confess I do like a bit of historical reality to add, as Cara/Andrea says, grit and texture to a story. But I also love a good take-me-away fantasy and a solid happy ending.
I’ve read — and written— a few stories that start with people in a grim situation, and I love watching them work their way toward a happy ending. I think the happy ending means more when they’ve had to work for it.
Fascinating post, Pat. I must confess I do like a bit of historical reality to add, as Cara/Andrea says, grit and texture to a story. But I also love a good take-me-away fantasy and a solid happy ending.
I’ve read — and written— a few stories that start with people in a grim situation, and I love watching them work their way toward a happy ending. I think the happy ending means more when they’ve had to work for it.
Fascinating post, Pat. I must confess I do like a bit of historical reality to add, as Cara/Andrea says, grit and texture to a story. But I also love a good take-me-away fantasy and a solid happy ending.
I’ve read — and written— a few stories that start with people in a grim situation, and I love watching them work their way toward a happy ending. I think the happy ending means more when they’ve had to work for it.
Working their way OUT of a disaster like debtor’s prison would certainly show a depth to a hero or heroine’s character not often seen in historical romance. I do read historical romance for the escape, but also to immerse myself in another time and place. And time and place, just as most people, has it’s pitfalls and warts! Great post!
Working their way OUT of a disaster like debtor’s prison would certainly show a depth to a hero or heroine’s character not often seen in historical romance. I do read historical romance for the escape, but also to immerse myself in another time and place. And time and place, just as most people, has it’s pitfalls and warts! Great post!
Working their way OUT of a disaster like debtor’s prison would certainly show a depth to a hero or heroine’s character not often seen in historical romance. I do read historical romance for the escape, but also to immerse myself in another time and place. And time and place, just as most people, has it’s pitfalls and warts! Great post!
Working their way OUT of a disaster like debtor’s prison would certainly show a depth to a hero or heroine’s character not often seen in historical romance. I do read historical romance for the escape, but also to immerse myself in another time and place. And time and place, just as most people, has it’s pitfalls and warts! Great post!
Working their way OUT of a disaster like debtor’s prison would certainly show a depth to a hero or heroine’s character not often seen in historical romance. I do read historical romance for the escape, but also to immerse myself in another time and place. And time and place, just as most people, has it’s pitfalls and warts! Great post!
The Duke Rescues the Maiden! Love that thought. Once upon a time I did really gritty stories, but I’ve been moving further away from them lately. Maybe I need to take another look at that, but I, too, like escape from reality. Convince me otherwise!
The Duke Rescues the Maiden! Love that thought. Once upon a time I did really gritty stories, but I’ve been moving further away from them lately. Maybe I need to take another look at that, but I, too, like escape from reality. Convince me otherwise!
The Duke Rescues the Maiden! Love that thought. Once upon a time I did really gritty stories, but I’ve been moving further away from them lately. Maybe I need to take another look at that, but I, too, like escape from reality. Convince me otherwise!
The Duke Rescues the Maiden! Love that thought. Once upon a time I did really gritty stories, but I’ve been moving further away from them lately. Maybe I need to take another look at that, but I, too, like escape from reality. Convince me otherwise!
The Duke Rescues the Maiden! Love that thought. Once upon a time I did really gritty stories, but I’ve been moving further away from them lately. Maybe I need to take another look at that, but I, too, like escape from reality. Convince me otherwise!
Someone did a story a few years back where a heroine was locked up, though it might have been for theft, not debt . . . who was it? I want to say it was Jo Beverley, but I could be wrong. I can see the scene where the hero gets her out perfectly. ARGH! I hate when I can’t remember the book I’m thinking of (mostly cause it’s a rare occurrence for me).
Since I’m writing younger sons, I can totally see one of them ending up there (though the machinations of the villain or poor, dumb luck). Hmmmm, now you’ve got ideas for future books creeping about in my head.
Someone did a story a few years back where a heroine was locked up, though it might have been for theft, not debt . . . who was it? I want to say it was Jo Beverley, but I could be wrong. I can see the scene where the hero gets her out perfectly. ARGH! I hate when I can’t remember the book I’m thinking of (mostly cause it’s a rare occurrence for me).
Since I’m writing younger sons, I can totally see one of them ending up there (though the machinations of the villain or poor, dumb luck). Hmmmm, now you’ve got ideas for future books creeping about in my head.
Someone did a story a few years back where a heroine was locked up, though it might have been for theft, not debt . . . who was it? I want to say it was Jo Beverley, but I could be wrong. I can see the scene where the hero gets her out perfectly. ARGH! I hate when I can’t remember the book I’m thinking of (mostly cause it’s a rare occurrence for me).
Since I’m writing younger sons, I can totally see one of them ending up there (though the machinations of the villain or poor, dumb luck). Hmmmm, now you’ve got ideas for future books creeping about in my head.
Someone did a story a few years back where a heroine was locked up, though it might have been for theft, not debt . . . who was it? I want to say it was Jo Beverley, but I could be wrong. I can see the scene where the hero gets her out perfectly. ARGH! I hate when I can’t remember the book I’m thinking of (mostly cause it’s a rare occurrence for me).
Since I’m writing younger sons, I can totally see one of them ending up there (though the machinations of the villain or poor, dumb luck). Hmmmm, now you’ve got ideas for future books creeping about in my head.
Someone did a story a few years back where a heroine was locked up, though it might have been for theft, not debt . . . who was it? I want to say it was Jo Beverley, but I could be wrong. I can see the scene where the hero gets her out perfectly. ARGH! I hate when I can’t remember the book I’m thinking of (mostly cause it’s a rare occurrence for me).
Since I’m writing younger sons, I can totally see one of them ending up there (though the machinations of the villain or poor, dumb luck). Hmmmm, now you’ve got ideas for future books creeping about in my head.
I’ve read a few romances recently which have a scene or two in prison, or on the mean streets of London. I like them! Similarly I like a hero (or heroine) who has had a bit of grit in his (or her) past – I’m thinking of Derek in Lisa Kleypas’ Dreaming of You or Sebastian Reyne in Anne Gracie’s The Perfect Waltz. I think it comes from a longstanding crush on Richard Armitage in North and South *sighs*. Admittedly any hardup angst was contrasted with a lot of glitz in those (excellent) books – but it makes a refreshing change from unadulterated Almack’s!
Gaelen Foley’s The Duke is another one such, but I did find the rape scene in that a bit hard to stomach…
I’ve read a few romances recently which have a scene or two in prison, or on the mean streets of London. I like them! Similarly I like a hero (or heroine) who has had a bit of grit in his (or her) past – I’m thinking of Derek in Lisa Kleypas’ Dreaming of You or Sebastian Reyne in Anne Gracie’s The Perfect Waltz. I think it comes from a longstanding crush on Richard Armitage in North and South *sighs*. Admittedly any hardup angst was contrasted with a lot of glitz in those (excellent) books – but it makes a refreshing change from unadulterated Almack’s!
Gaelen Foley’s The Duke is another one such, but I did find the rape scene in that a bit hard to stomach…
I’ve read a few romances recently which have a scene or two in prison, or on the mean streets of London. I like them! Similarly I like a hero (or heroine) who has had a bit of grit in his (or her) past – I’m thinking of Derek in Lisa Kleypas’ Dreaming of You or Sebastian Reyne in Anne Gracie’s The Perfect Waltz. I think it comes from a longstanding crush on Richard Armitage in North and South *sighs*. Admittedly any hardup angst was contrasted with a lot of glitz in those (excellent) books – but it makes a refreshing change from unadulterated Almack’s!
Gaelen Foley’s The Duke is another one such, but I did find the rape scene in that a bit hard to stomach…
I’ve read a few romances recently which have a scene or two in prison, or on the mean streets of London. I like them! Similarly I like a hero (or heroine) who has had a bit of grit in his (or her) past – I’m thinking of Derek in Lisa Kleypas’ Dreaming of You or Sebastian Reyne in Anne Gracie’s The Perfect Waltz. I think it comes from a longstanding crush on Richard Armitage in North and South *sighs*. Admittedly any hardup angst was contrasted with a lot of glitz in those (excellent) books – but it makes a refreshing change from unadulterated Almack’s!
Gaelen Foley’s The Duke is another one such, but I did find the rape scene in that a bit hard to stomach…
I’ve read a few romances recently which have a scene or two in prison, or on the mean streets of London. I like them! Similarly I like a hero (or heroine) who has had a bit of grit in his (or her) past – I’m thinking of Derek in Lisa Kleypas’ Dreaming of You or Sebastian Reyne in Anne Gracie’s The Perfect Waltz. I think it comes from a longstanding crush on Richard Armitage in North and South *sighs*. Admittedly any hardup angst was contrasted with a lot of glitz in those (excellent) books – but it makes a refreshing change from unadulterated Almack’s!
Gaelen Foley’s The Duke is another one such, but I did find the rape scene in that a bit hard to stomach…
Pat, if you’re asking for hints about what you should write, well, you know I loved your old Cowboy books, but more like your Wicked Wyckerly wouldn’t go astray. Lovely book!
Margaret, I loved Richard Armitage in North and South, too. Such a lovely, intense hero. And thanks for your kind comments about my Sebastian.
Margaret’s comments reminded me of wench Joanna’s books. I loved the criminal underworld scenes in her My Lord and Spymaster. Lovely evocative stuff.
Pat, if you’re asking for hints about what you should write, well, you know I loved your old Cowboy books, but more like your Wicked Wyckerly wouldn’t go astray. Lovely book!
Margaret, I loved Richard Armitage in North and South, too. Such a lovely, intense hero. And thanks for your kind comments about my Sebastian.
Margaret’s comments reminded me of wench Joanna’s books. I loved the criminal underworld scenes in her My Lord and Spymaster. Lovely evocative stuff.
Pat, if you’re asking for hints about what you should write, well, you know I loved your old Cowboy books, but more like your Wicked Wyckerly wouldn’t go astray. Lovely book!
Margaret, I loved Richard Armitage in North and South, too. Such a lovely, intense hero. And thanks for your kind comments about my Sebastian.
Margaret’s comments reminded me of wench Joanna’s books. I loved the criminal underworld scenes in her My Lord and Spymaster. Lovely evocative stuff.
Pat, if you’re asking for hints about what you should write, well, you know I loved your old Cowboy books, but more like your Wicked Wyckerly wouldn’t go astray. Lovely book!
Margaret, I loved Richard Armitage in North and South, too. Such a lovely, intense hero. And thanks for your kind comments about my Sebastian.
Margaret’s comments reminded me of wench Joanna’s books. I loved the criminal underworld scenes in her My Lord and Spymaster. Lovely evocative stuff.
Pat, if you’re asking for hints about what you should write, well, you know I loved your old Cowboy books, but more like your Wicked Wyckerly wouldn’t go astray. Lovely book!
Margaret, I loved Richard Armitage in North and South, too. Such a lovely, intense hero. And thanks for your kind comments about my Sebastian.
Margaret’s comments reminded me of wench Joanna’s books. I loved the criminal underworld scenes in her My Lord and Spymaster. Lovely evocative stuff.
Pat, I vote for more grit and realism. Norah Lofts’ “Hester Roon” was one of my favorite books way back when. Some of us (me) have grown irked by all the privelege and the fairy tale. Give those people some real problems to deal with.
Pat, I vote for more grit and realism. Norah Lofts’ “Hester Roon” was one of my favorite books way back when. Some of us (me) have grown irked by all the privelege and the fairy tale. Give those people some real problems to deal with.
Pat, I vote for more grit and realism. Norah Lofts’ “Hester Roon” was one of my favorite books way back when. Some of us (me) have grown irked by all the privelege and the fairy tale. Give those people some real problems to deal with.
Pat, I vote for more grit and realism. Norah Lofts’ “Hester Roon” was one of my favorite books way back when. Some of us (me) have grown irked by all the privelege and the fairy tale. Give those people some real problems to deal with.
Pat, I vote for more grit and realism. Norah Lofts’ “Hester Roon” was one of my favorite books way back when. Some of us (me) have grown irked by all the privelege and the fairy tale. Give those people some real problems to deal with.
I prefer the romantic fairy story of debtors’ prison because quite frankly there was nothing romantic about the real debtors’ prison. There is, or was (in the 1970s) a debtors’ prison still in existence in London. The Wood Street Debtors’ Prison. It is now the cellars of an off licence, bottle shop or whatever. A friend and I found out about it and managed to get permission to visit it. It was dark, cold (good for the wine),and you could still see some iron rings let into the brick work. Not welcoming. And no way out unless the goaler let you out.
I prefer the romantic fairy story of debtors’ prison because quite frankly there was nothing romantic about the real debtors’ prison. There is, or was (in the 1970s) a debtors’ prison still in existence in London. The Wood Street Debtors’ Prison. It is now the cellars of an off licence, bottle shop or whatever. A friend and I found out about it and managed to get permission to visit it. It was dark, cold (good for the wine),and you could still see some iron rings let into the brick work. Not welcoming. And no way out unless the goaler let you out.
I prefer the romantic fairy story of debtors’ prison because quite frankly there was nothing romantic about the real debtors’ prison. There is, or was (in the 1970s) a debtors’ prison still in existence in London. The Wood Street Debtors’ Prison. It is now the cellars of an off licence, bottle shop or whatever. A friend and I found out about it and managed to get permission to visit it. It was dark, cold (good for the wine),and you could still see some iron rings let into the brick work. Not welcoming. And no way out unless the goaler let you out.
I prefer the romantic fairy story of debtors’ prison because quite frankly there was nothing romantic about the real debtors’ prison. There is, or was (in the 1970s) a debtors’ prison still in existence in London. The Wood Street Debtors’ Prison. It is now the cellars of an off licence, bottle shop or whatever. A friend and I found out about it and managed to get permission to visit it. It was dark, cold (good for the wine),and you could still see some iron rings let into the brick work. Not welcoming. And no way out unless the goaler let you out.
I prefer the romantic fairy story of debtors’ prison because quite frankly there was nothing romantic about the real debtors’ prison. There is, or was (in the 1970s) a debtors’ prison still in existence in London. The Wood Street Debtors’ Prison. It is now the cellars of an off licence, bottle shop or whatever. A friend and I found out about it and managed to get permission to visit it. It was dark, cold (good for the wine),and you could still see some iron rings let into the brick work. Not welcoming. And no way out unless the goaler let you out.
I too vote for more realism. Poverty – starving, having no place to live, no clothing but rags and castoffs, having to turn whore or thief to survive – was a terrifying possibility to most people, to a degree I think we moderns with our social safety nets don’t feel (we can imagine it but we can’t really feel it in our guts they way they did). One way heroes and heroines show their quality is by overcoming obstacles; I have enjoyed tales in which those obstacles are historically based down & dirty and would have been real & frightening to those characters. For me, poverty, debtor’s prison, ruin, etc. can make spy plots, murder plots, mistress revenge plots, etc. seem trivial by comparison. But maybe having read too many wallpaper regencies which have zero regard for the true facts of the era is making me a grinch 🙂
I too vote for more realism. Poverty – starving, having no place to live, no clothing but rags and castoffs, having to turn whore or thief to survive – was a terrifying possibility to most people, to a degree I think we moderns with our social safety nets don’t feel (we can imagine it but we can’t really feel it in our guts they way they did). One way heroes and heroines show their quality is by overcoming obstacles; I have enjoyed tales in which those obstacles are historically based down & dirty and would have been real & frightening to those characters. For me, poverty, debtor’s prison, ruin, etc. can make spy plots, murder plots, mistress revenge plots, etc. seem trivial by comparison. But maybe having read too many wallpaper regencies which have zero regard for the true facts of the era is making me a grinch 🙂
I too vote for more realism. Poverty – starving, having no place to live, no clothing but rags and castoffs, having to turn whore or thief to survive – was a terrifying possibility to most people, to a degree I think we moderns with our social safety nets don’t feel (we can imagine it but we can’t really feel it in our guts they way they did). One way heroes and heroines show their quality is by overcoming obstacles; I have enjoyed tales in which those obstacles are historically based down & dirty and would have been real & frightening to those characters. For me, poverty, debtor’s prison, ruin, etc. can make spy plots, murder plots, mistress revenge plots, etc. seem trivial by comparison. But maybe having read too many wallpaper regencies which have zero regard for the true facts of the era is making me a grinch 🙂
I too vote for more realism. Poverty – starving, having no place to live, no clothing but rags and castoffs, having to turn whore or thief to survive – was a terrifying possibility to most people, to a degree I think we moderns with our social safety nets don’t feel (we can imagine it but we can’t really feel it in our guts they way they did). One way heroes and heroines show their quality is by overcoming obstacles; I have enjoyed tales in which those obstacles are historically based down & dirty and would have been real & frightening to those characters. For me, poverty, debtor’s prison, ruin, etc. can make spy plots, murder plots, mistress revenge plots, etc. seem trivial by comparison. But maybe having read too many wallpaper regencies which have zero regard for the true facts of the era is making me a grinch 🙂
I too vote for more realism. Poverty – starving, having no place to live, no clothing but rags and castoffs, having to turn whore or thief to survive – was a terrifying possibility to most people, to a degree I think we moderns with our social safety nets don’t feel (we can imagine it but we can’t really feel it in our guts they way they did). One way heroes and heroines show their quality is by overcoming obstacles; I have enjoyed tales in which those obstacles are historically based down & dirty and would have been real & frightening to those characters. For me, poverty, debtor’s prison, ruin, etc. can make spy plots, murder plots, mistress revenge plots, etc. seem trivial by comparison. But maybe having read too many wallpaper regencies which have zero regard for the true facts of the era is making me a grinch 🙂
Talk about timing. Just rec’d the scans of WAYWARD ANGEL, from back in my gritty days. Starts out with domestic violence and death! But it works, really, trust me. “G” Glad I gave you ideas, Isobel. Maybe we can start a trend. But I need the balance, all grit and no play makes a dull read!
Talk about timing. Just rec’d the scans of WAYWARD ANGEL, from back in my gritty days. Starts out with domestic violence and death! But it works, really, trust me. “G” Glad I gave you ideas, Isobel. Maybe we can start a trend. But I need the balance, all grit and no play makes a dull read!
Talk about timing. Just rec’d the scans of WAYWARD ANGEL, from back in my gritty days. Starts out with domestic violence and death! But it works, really, trust me. “G” Glad I gave you ideas, Isobel. Maybe we can start a trend. But I need the balance, all grit and no play makes a dull read!
Talk about timing. Just rec’d the scans of WAYWARD ANGEL, from back in my gritty days. Starts out with domestic violence and death! But it works, really, trust me. “G” Glad I gave you ideas, Isobel. Maybe we can start a trend. But I need the balance, all grit and no play makes a dull read!
Talk about timing. Just rec’d the scans of WAYWARD ANGEL, from back in my gritty days. Starts out with domestic violence and death! But it works, really, trust me. “G” Glad I gave you ideas, Isobel. Maybe we can start a trend. But I need the balance, all grit and no play makes a dull read!
Wendy, Isobel is right. There are a couple of novels out there that start with either the H or Hn in prison, but for the life of me, I can’t think of a single title right now either!
*sigh* With age comes the bittersweet goodbye of brains…
Done right, I think gritty can really work. There are times though when gritty can become tiresome and then, I really prefer the fantasy.
But I read the stories the Wenches write to escape reality, not to get heavy history lessons in harsh reality. So far, you all have had the right mix for me. When it needs to be heavy, you do it with reason and it works. :o)
I’ve read authors though who bring in such overwhelming doses of ‘gritty reality’ that I’m exhausted reading and finally don’t finish the book because that reality has overtaken the story. No more for me.
Life is gritty enough.
Wendy, Isobel is right. There are a couple of novels out there that start with either the H or Hn in prison, but for the life of me, I can’t think of a single title right now either!
*sigh* With age comes the bittersweet goodbye of brains…
Done right, I think gritty can really work. There are times though when gritty can become tiresome and then, I really prefer the fantasy.
But I read the stories the Wenches write to escape reality, not to get heavy history lessons in harsh reality. So far, you all have had the right mix for me. When it needs to be heavy, you do it with reason and it works. :o)
I’ve read authors though who bring in such overwhelming doses of ‘gritty reality’ that I’m exhausted reading and finally don’t finish the book because that reality has overtaken the story. No more for me.
Life is gritty enough.
Wendy, Isobel is right. There are a couple of novels out there that start with either the H or Hn in prison, but for the life of me, I can’t think of a single title right now either!
*sigh* With age comes the bittersweet goodbye of brains…
Done right, I think gritty can really work. There are times though when gritty can become tiresome and then, I really prefer the fantasy.
But I read the stories the Wenches write to escape reality, not to get heavy history lessons in harsh reality. So far, you all have had the right mix for me. When it needs to be heavy, you do it with reason and it works. :o)
I’ve read authors though who bring in such overwhelming doses of ‘gritty reality’ that I’m exhausted reading and finally don’t finish the book because that reality has overtaken the story. No more for me.
Life is gritty enough.
Wendy, Isobel is right. There are a couple of novels out there that start with either the H or Hn in prison, but for the life of me, I can’t think of a single title right now either!
*sigh* With age comes the bittersweet goodbye of brains…
Done right, I think gritty can really work. There are times though when gritty can become tiresome and then, I really prefer the fantasy.
But I read the stories the Wenches write to escape reality, not to get heavy history lessons in harsh reality. So far, you all have had the right mix for me. When it needs to be heavy, you do it with reason and it works. :o)
I’ve read authors though who bring in such overwhelming doses of ‘gritty reality’ that I’m exhausted reading and finally don’t finish the book because that reality has overtaken the story. No more for me.
Life is gritty enough.
Wendy, Isobel is right. There are a couple of novels out there that start with either the H or Hn in prison, but for the life of me, I can’t think of a single title right now either!
*sigh* With age comes the bittersweet goodbye of brains…
Done right, I think gritty can really work. There are times though when gritty can become tiresome and then, I really prefer the fantasy.
But I read the stories the Wenches write to escape reality, not to get heavy history lessons in harsh reality. So far, you all have had the right mix for me. When it needs to be heavy, you do it with reason and it works. :o)
I’ve read authors though who bring in such overwhelming doses of ‘gritty reality’ that I’m exhausted reading and finally don’t finish the book because that reality has overtaken the story. No more for me.
Life is gritty enough.
I like a little bit of realism, as long as the hero or heroine is rescued before they’re really hurt in any way. The threat of them having to endure hardship helps make it more nail-biting I think, but I do like the fairy tale and HEA so nothing too gruesome!
I like a little bit of realism, as long as the hero or heroine is rescued before they’re really hurt in any way. The threat of them having to endure hardship helps make it more nail-biting I think, but I do like the fairy tale and HEA so nothing too gruesome!
I like a little bit of realism, as long as the hero or heroine is rescued before they’re really hurt in any way. The threat of them having to endure hardship helps make it more nail-biting I think, but I do like the fairy tale and HEA so nothing too gruesome!
I like a little bit of realism, as long as the hero or heroine is rescued before they’re really hurt in any way. The threat of them having to endure hardship helps make it more nail-biting I think, but I do like the fairy tale and HEA so nothing too gruesome!
I like a little bit of realism, as long as the hero or heroine is rescued before they’re really hurt in any way. The threat of them having to endure hardship helps make it more nail-biting I think, but I do like the fairy tale and HEA so nothing too gruesome!
Romance requires the HEA. I’m all over that. But here are only so many “pleasant” conflicts I can tolerate without feeling saccharine, which is why I was exploring the gritty. I fear I gave Susan King a great idea though, so maybe I won’t do gaol just yet. “G”
Romance requires the HEA. I’m all over that. But here are only so many “pleasant” conflicts I can tolerate without feeling saccharine, which is why I was exploring the gritty. I fear I gave Susan King a great idea though, so maybe I won’t do gaol just yet. “G”
Romance requires the HEA. I’m all over that. But here are only so many “pleasant” conflicts I can tolerate without feeling saccharine, which is why I was exploring the gritty. I fear I gave Susan King a great idea though, so maybe I won’t do gaol just yet. “G”
Romance requires the HEA. I’m all over that. But here are only so many “pleasant” conflicts I can tolerate without feeling saccharine, which is why I was exploring the gritty. I fear I gave Susan King a great idea though, so maybe I won’t do gaol just yet. “G”
Romance requires the HEA. I’m all over that. But here are only so many “pleasant” conflicts I can tolerate without feeling saccharine, which is why I was exploring the gritty. I fear I gave Susan King a great idea though, so maybe I won’t do gaol just yet. “G”
Wasn’t Jane Asuten’s Aunt Mrs Parrot summoned for theft? Did she need to spend time in prison awaiting trial?
Wasn’t Jane Asuten’s Aunt Mrs Parrot summoned for theft? Did she need to spend time in prison awaiting trial?
Wasn’t Jane Asuten’s Aunt Mrs Parrot summoned for theft? Did she need to spend time in prison awaiting trial?
Wasn’t Jane Asuten’s Aunt Mrs Parrot summoned for theft? Did she need to spend time in prison awaiting trial?
Wasn’t Jane Asuten’s Aunt Mrs Parrot summoned for theft? Did she need to spend time in prison awaiting trial?